The goal of Ombudsman Anna Šabatová is to help people, especially people who do not belong to "mainstream" society and children with disabilities or social disadvantages. She recently shared her thoughts on human rights and education in the Czech Republic with School All Inclusive magazine:

You have already worked for the Ombudsman's Office from 2001-2007, as deputy for Ombudsman Otakar Motejl. You returned to the office as an ombudsman this year. How did the situation of human rights change in those years?

It will expand the work of the [Ombudsman's Office]. Here, the issue of human rights is much more represented than it was in the early years of this institution. It has to do with extending the scope of its activities, whether the protection of persons deprived of liberty and the prevention of mistreatment, protection against discrimination, or supervising the deportation of aliens.

In general, I would say that the violations of human rights in a democratic society do not happen intentionally or with a deliberate intent to violate the law. It is always more or less the callous exercise of public authority, omissions, unprofessional attitude in social services or long-term persistence of stereotypical views of the society. An infringement is often unclear and unrecognizable for anyone at first glance.

Does the view of fundamental rights change?

Yes, it changes. Some ten years ago, before the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, we would of course consider it a violation of fundamental rights if the people in daycare were treated badly in any way, or if someone would punish or restrict them, or keep them on a poor diet. But the overall view of Czech society on the issue, and that some people spend their whole life in an institution, would not be very critical. Now, after we joined the Convention, we have to view this critically and strive to change it.

Or, another example: thirteen years ago, when we in the office started to investigate the first cases of children taken from their parents, the social services workers were not bothered by the question of whether their intervention in family life is justified or inappropriate. Today, the findings of European Court of Human Rights, the Constitutional Court rulings and unifying decisions of the Supreme Court are actually reflected within the new Civil Code and far greater emphasis is placed on preventive social work with the family. And I could go on. It is important to talk about human rights, be interested in them and oversee their protection.

You assumed the position of ombudsman a few months ago. What seems to be a crucial topic for you and what do you want to concentrate on in the near future?

It is my duty to deal with all the problems with which people turn to me that are within the scope of the Ombudsman's Office. I cannot just pick what I want to deal with. I was always open about the fact that I am particularly close to topics concerning the protection of persons deprived of their freedom and the promotion of the right to equal treatment.

Especially in a discrimination case, I am convinced that a great prejudice, which leads to unequal treatment toleration, still survives within the society. Victims of discrimination in such an atmosphere do not often even want to defend themselves, so that their situation is not worsened. That is not right. I therefore consider it important to try to overcome the stereotypes, changing the approach of politicians and society on these issues.

The Czech Republic has long been criticized for uneven conditions in its education. What seems to you to be the biggest problem? What change has been achieved already? Is it possible to do more?

Every child has an equal right to education. Of course, not everyone will become a doctor or an engineer, but the state should guarantee all children the same chance at the beginning of their life. The state's interference in the lives of future generations, in that some children were given obstacles in access to education, is totally unacceptable.

This changes slowly, but in the context of the current activities of the government and the minister for human rights, I see hope for a possible change for the better. I would undoubtedly talk more about equal chances in education with educational providers and parents of all children. I often see fear of a system change there. It should clearly be said that equal opportunities in education are beneficial to the whole society, from the human and the economic point of view.

We often hear about inclusive education as a way of achieving fair education. Where do you see its benefits and what you think are the risks associated with its implementation into practice?

Inclusive education is considered to be the only defense against life in a segregated society. Children are taught since their childhood to see the differences as something natural; they broaden their social perception and social sensitivity. This is something that our society lacks a bit. We are surprised by various manifestations of extremism, which also stems from the inability to understand and respect differences, and from prejudice.

I think that overcoming prejudices in society is the most difficult part of the inclusive education implementation. Actually, it is the only risk I see related to it. It is not about the financial costs - what we save on segregated education, we can transfer into inclusive [education]. Mainly, it is necessary to start with it, not to spend time looking for more and more possible risks and leave the next generation growing up without proper schooling options.

The biggest danger I see is that many teachers are not ready for this model of education. Furthermore, a teacher is the cornerstone of the entire system. Without his or her erudition, commitment and proper evaluation, the inclusive education model will never work.

An amendment to the Education Act is currently being discussed, which among other things should change the conditions for the education of pupils with special educational needs. What impact on the everyday life of schools would an adoption of the amendment bring about?

Even the best law doesn't ensure justice and equality. It will always depend on many factors and especially on the people who are not lawyers in many cases, who will be putting the Education Act into practice. The amendment, which I had the chance to comment on, is undoubtedly a very good start. It's easy to comprehend and has a concrete idea, which is a phenomenon you do not see very often, dare I say.

I am fond of the level of support that will be sought for each pupil on an individual level. Labeling children into three unnecessary categories will cease, and rights and responsibilities will be clarified, and thus the responsibility of individual agents (schools, counseling facilities, children and parents) as well. On the other hand, the implementation of the amendment currently starts in 2017, which I strongly oppose. Each additional year of waiting deepens the dismal state for thousands of children.

I also disagree with the capacity expansion of the so-called "zero school grades." The state must focus its effort on building kindergartens. I see a future of equal opportunities in this.

What is your opinion of a situation where our educational system, hence schools, are forcing parents of pupils with special educational needs to pay a teacher's assistant themselves?

This is just one of the signs that our compulsory education is not suited for the existence of diverse backgrounds and that it's unable to work with it (on human, administrative and financial levels). Compulsory education is still free. Parents of children with disabilities have to partially pay for the assistance, and this could under specific circumstances be considered as discrimination, as no need of such sort arises for the children without a disability.

Parents may seek a court decision to waive the discrimination and remove the effect of unequal treatment. Under certain circumstances, they may apply for a reasonable financial compensation. Parents, however, do not choose this course. Either out of ignorance or fear of worsening the relations within the school or with the authorities. I understand their distrust of the judicial system, which is cumbersome and slow in [reaching] decisions.

But I am well familiar with the story of an autistic child whose mom did not give up and was able to reach the Constitutional Court. I consider the negative decision in her case extremely unfortunate. This lady filed a formal complaint to the European Court of Human Rights. I am convinced that she will win, and will keep my fingers crossed for her. My opinion will support her in Strasbourg.

What kind school would you wish for your grandchildren?

Hearing this question, I can think only of banal clichés, which I 'd like to avoid. Well then. I would definitely like to see the school developing the natural curiosity of a child, stop the evaluation according to the results on a scale of 1 to 5, but to take into account the effort that the children invested in their work, and to evaluate the whole journey that the children have taken from point A to point B. This is what I am still missing in the whole Czech school system.

I wish the school taught respect for others and, in an unconstrained way, showed that each person has his or her natural place in the world and can evolve, given the right conditions. And, of course, I wish that the children would like to remember the time they spent in school.

This interview was published in the third issue of School All Inclusive magazine. The magazine is published by the People in Need Foundation in collaboration with the University of Palacký in Olomouc in the project "System support for inclusive education in Czech republic."